geoffpikey
4:58 Mon Aug 26
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Ag at @ The Stoat.
VAR is pretty shit, IMHO.
But not as bad as the new handball rule which is ridiculous. The ball flies around at pace: if it simply collides with an arm, that is not a "foul". Or shouldn't be.
The game will be officiated to death.
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Far Cough
4:52 Mon Aug 26
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Haha
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The Stoat
4:47 Mon Aug 26
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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It gets some decisions right ....
https://ibb.co/VDZvbwc
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diehardhammer
2:31 Fri Aug 23
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Fortunes Hiding 1:23 Fri Aug 23
You could argue that the ball nudging off Laporte's arm and landing right at Jesus' feet was the TEAM gaining possession therefore making VAR right
This handball rule needs examining to make this whole debate clearer
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Fortunes Hiding
1:23 Fri Aug 23
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Interesting view on City’s “winner” on saturday
Nearly everyone says VAR was right, but the rule is wrong. They are mistaken. VAR, like almost everybody else, misinterpreted the rule.
This is what the rule says: “It is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then scores in the opponents’ goal or creates a goalscoring opportunity.”
The player penalised at the Etihad on Saturday was Aymeric Laporte. He tried to get his head to a corner but missed, and afterwards as the ball passed him it hit his arm.
The rule poses two questions. Only if the answer to both of them is yes should a player be punished.
The first question is: did the player gain possession or control of the ball after it had touched their hand or arm? For Laporte the answer was no. After the ball had touched his arm he did not gain possession or control of the ball. At no point before or after did he have possession or control of the ball. This is undeniable.
As the answer to the first question was no, the goal should have stood. The answer to the second question then became irrelevant. But, for the record, I would argue that the answer to the second question was also no.
The second question is: did the player then score a goal or create a goalscoring opportunity? First to the loose ball was Gabriel Jesus. At that moment he did not have a goalscoring opportunity. He created one for himself by then moving the ball into space from which he could bend it into the net.
I do not blame VAR Graham Scott, who is a good Premier League referee, or his assistant Andy Halliday. I think they did what they had been told to do. My beef is that what they had been told to do is not what the rule says they should do.
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diehardhammer
3:25 Thu Aug 22
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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https://www.claretandhugh.info/pellegrini-in-support-of-var/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
pellegrini in favour of VAR too
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SUM A DING WONG
1:42 Thu Aug 22
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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As Edwin Starr said
VAR, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
VAR, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all.
Sorry, i just had to get that off my chest.
In all seriousness, i think VAR will eventually work reasonably well.
Just teething problems, innit, blud.
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Stubbo
11:59 Thu Aug 22
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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VAR is a step forward in my opinion. Decision Review in cricket took a couple years to get right and now is very polished in it's delivery.
The same will be true of VAR. The ambiguity of the rules and then the inconsistent interpretation of them is the far bigger issue.
The other that will be an issue is remaining big club bias in non black and white situations like contact fouls in the box. But hopefully this will at least improve on idiots like John Moss.
Agree with all said about offside and handball. Those rules are a dogs dinner, and need addressing. Handball should be entirely about whether an advantage was gained, and with the onus on players to keep their arms out of the way. It might lead to more penalties and bigger scores but why does that matter?
Offside in my opinion should consider anyone in the 18 yard box interfering with play, with none of this first and second phase bollocks. Im fine with a guy injured by the corner flag not being considered interfering with play, but if youre in the area the defence have to factor you into their decision making, and that is interfering with play (whether you physically move to play the ball or not).
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Manuel
10:24 Thu Aug 22
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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The way I'd change it is that there has to be daylight between the forward and last defender to be offside,all this leg, knee, shoulder offside is stupid.
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jack flash
10:20 Thu Aug 22
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Sniper ~
I think that you're 100% correct
If you're offside, your offside.
This 'Not deemed by the referee to be interfering with play' nonsense is open to all sorts of dubious interpretations & decisions made at the whim of the referee
The rules become to vague & not even understood by the majority, which cannot be right
I'm not against VAR but it needs to be applied much better
Offside decisions should be clear cut with modern technology, & they would be if the old rules were applied
I like the way it's applied in cricket where the captain is allowed a fixed number of VAR revues However, all penalty decisions should be revued live as a matter of course as there is always a natural delay before a penalty kick gets taken
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Sniper
2:28 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Duke
Yeah that’s fair enough. I just look at all examples like those and just think that if hey don’t restrict offside back a bit then you might as well just get rid of it and allow goal hanging.
The only way to mitigate the first one is to not push the defence up. And even the second one, because of how far forward Kane is to start with, you need to drop the defence back really quickly to get goal side of him again
The third one is difficult in that there needs to be a degree of flexibility but I do think the current laws don’t help at all
I do t even get me started on how stupid it is that you can be classed as offside by your toe being in front of someone
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Iron Duke
2:13 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Sniper, I can only agree with you on the first goal. Kane was offside from the original pass so should have been out of the game for cross. The second one, by the time the through ball was played he was onside. For the third goal, they would have been offside if it came back to them if it came off the post or keeper, but they were not interfering in my view.
Back to the first goal, it really isn’t right that a player can be deemed onside from that position.
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Sniper
1:51 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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My only hope with var is that the use of it will lead to tweaking some of the ridiculous laws currently in the game. Offside being one of them.
Here’s are highlights of us losing 3-2 at home to spurs a couple of seasons back.
https://youtu.be/5VrW8iKeE9Q
The first goal is how ludicrous offside is. When the ball is played to alli, Kane is a good couple of yards offside - he’s way ahead of Ogbonna, who is the furthest player back, but he goes after Alli who is the nearest player to him. Kane is three or four yards ahead of Reid, who has no chance of making that ground back so by the time Alli crosses Kane is all alone. The goal should’ve been chalked off as soo e as the ball was played in to Kane as he gained a huge advantage by being offside initially. The actual workings of the current law mean that if he’d just been stood on the penalty spot the whole time but the ball was played back to him in the same manner by alli, that would be ok. That’s just stupid
The second goal is another one of those modern interpretations of offside. Hart clears the ball, Kane is in the penalty area when he does so. Spurs win the header and pass the ball forward and both times Kane is still offside, slowly jogging and make minimal effort to get inside. Only when the through ball is made does he move to get onside just in time, but maintains the space he was in initially and so gains an advantage from it. It’s poor defending but it comes about from us pushing up and Kane not doing so and so he gains an advantage.
The third goal, when erikkson strikes the ball there are two players offside on the edge of the 6 yard box. Now neither of them are in front of hart, neither makes a move towards the ball or move out the way of it. However, I always argue with these that having a player there is off-putting for the keeper, and I remember years ago brad friedel doing punditry work on 5 live saying that keepers have to properly take into account where opposition players are when trying to save a shot so they don’t push a rebound out to them. I’m not saying that last part made a difference in this instance as hart is wank, but to process all of that in a fraction of a second when trying to make a save reduces the chance of making it. I’d have it that any player offside in the penalty area is just offside.
This isn’t because it’s kane/spurs it’s just an example of how three goals that would have all been offside 20 odd years ago now aren't because of modern interpretation and that’s not necessarily a good thing.
Instead of disallowing goals because the ball unwittingly brushed a players arm which you can only see on super slow mo as if you’re looking for a nick to the wicket keeper (and nobody in the pitch spotted or appealed about it), I’d rather stupid interpretations of laws were addressed and VAR was used and developed to iron out these issues to make the game better
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diehardhammer
1:23 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Unpopular opinion but I like VAR and it's intentions and ill explain why
For starters, the refereeing in the league last season was abysmal and west ham in particular were on the wrong end of countless bad decisions and im certain we would have achieved Europa qualification if VAR was in place last season.
This whole "it will kill atmospheres/kill celebrations" argument is complete and utter bollocks. The Wolves fans demonstrated they celebrated just fine when they scored before the VAR check.
The system as it stands is not perfect granted, some of the rules need re-examining which is rightly most people's gripe and annoyance. The offside and new handball rules can be re-jigged to find a solution there.
We finally have a system that will check dodgy decisions , it's not perfect now but given time it can get there.
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jack flash
1:12 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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So far, in my opinion its been an unmitigated disaster
It was a shambles in the Ladies World Cup & has proved to be no better in the EPL
The penalty awarded to Pogba in the WW vs Man U game was given for the most blatent dive so far this season, which was even clearer on the replay, yet no VAR!
There was nothing wrong with the old offside rule. If you're offside, you're offside, never mind this 'not interfering with play' bollocks
As one famous manager said 'If you're not interfering with play, you shouldn't be on the pitch!'
Offsides could then be easily decided by having a small metal tag sewn into the players shirt which could immediately show the players exact position in relation to the last 2 defenders
Probably too simple!
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Manuel
12:04 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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It's a disaster for too many reasons to sit here and list.
And btw, wait until a crucial penalty is not allowed after the keeper doesn't leave a foot on the line. Can understand there has to be some rules with a pen but they should have just left it, it didn't need reinforcing, how many times do you ever hear fans or even mangers complain about a penalty being taken?
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WHU(Exeter)
11:53 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Football is the most popular spectator sport in the world for a number of reasons. VAR will slowly but surely hugely diminish one of those very important reasons.
The mindset of those who introduced it, thinking that they could have a huge positive impact on something that was brilliant as it was, is the same kind of mindset that will stick with it despite it having a patently negative impact.
It is and always was going to be depressingly shit.
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Gazza_AZ
3:45 Wed Aug 21
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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I have to say personally - I like the new handball rule. And I did have a good laugh when Robbie Earle blasted it saying that it it shouldn't have been called because the players team didn't gain an advantage.
Er - they scored a goal - isn't that an Advantage.
Intentional Handball is a bookable offence - Unintentional handball that leads to an advantage is a free-kick, and so no goal. Its how the rule has always been written - but not enforced.
"It should only be a free-kick if the handball was intentional" - is bollocks and not what the rule says at all.
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goose
3:19 Tue Aug 20
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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there must be a better way of doing things.
as is VAR is shit.
the handball rule is completely bonkers.
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Haz
3:17 Tue Aug 20
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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I fucking hate it. It represents all that is wrong with football at the moment as the so-called football authorities try to eradicate every last ounce of passion from the game I love.
I expect the more nit-picking and fussy amongst us will love it.
Cunts, the lot of ya.
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scott_d
3:00 Tue Aug 20
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
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Manuel 1:15 Sun Aug 18
Re: VAR...are we all looking forward to it?
What's the consensus among the experts on here?
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FYI we are ALL experts.
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